Saturday, February 06, 2010

Hell and the Weight of Evil

Also a statement on whether one can put a price on God’s law, obedience to God, and the glory of God or can measure their worth...

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Let’s make a long story short. Once upon a time the Creator, who is chief of all virtue, holiness and excellence, fashioned a few creatures; He also told them how to be good tenants of the land that He rented to them, and let them go on their way. These tenants already knew and had some inkling of the idea that to do certain things was wrong, but they did these things anyway. Occasionally, they would stop and realize that they had done something reprehensible; and if they thought to make amends for what they had done they would choose their own way of attempting to atone for their wrongdoings, a way which did not truly satisfy the ontological demands of justice in the first place. In fact, they went on doing things which were deviant and contemptible anyhow and they forgot and otherwise ignored that what they were doing had no rightful place in this universe.

What they did was damnable and would be a just cause of their being destroyed outright, but the Creator and Sustainer of the universe did not immediately punish them, or remove them from the land, or destroy them. The wicked tenants of the land noticed that their evil actions were not entirely restrained and thus felt no strong compulsion to stop what they were doing. In fact, some of them even developed or nurtured the attitude that a crime committed long ago was a crime not warranting one’s being punished. (They did this regardless of the fact that clearly some measure of delay between crime and punishment did not negate the justice of punishment, as any parent with unruly or disobedient children in public places likely realizes.) So the tenants continued to walk the crooked path of moral deviance, some even professing to care next to nothing of the bitter fruit that their willfulness and corruption were storing up for them.

But then it came. The threshold separating imagination and reality and separating warning and culmination immediately dissolved and before these reprobates stood the realization and reification of the apostle Paul’s words to the Roman church that on the coming day of reckoning and settling of accounts there would be trouble, distress, and wrath for those who do evil. “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God,” and that is exactly what happened when the books were opened, the people were weighed and found wanting, and terrifying punishments no more than commensurate with the crimes these people committed began to be handed down.

At length the apostle Paul writes:

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. 1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God. 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel (Romans 1:18-2:16).
Says the writer of the book of Hebrews:
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31[It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10.26-31).
The terrifying picture in which it is not the sinner who sends himself to hell continues to be drawn as Christ himself says:
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25.41.)
Christ’s apostle Paul again writes:
19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good (Romans 12.19-21).

3We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; 4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day (2
Thessalonians 1.3-10).
Vengeance belongs to God, who is beyond being subject to endless cycles of violence which preoccupy the minds of humanistic consequentialists who categorically object to execution of vengeance. Meanwhile, the everlasting fire that awaits those who ignore God’s law, God’s requirements, and God’s warnings of the same is not some place of which God washes his hands before demons step in to do the would-be dirty work of dragging sinners off to perdition’s flames before they commence to prod them with red pitchforks for the rest of time. No, if you’ve thumbed your nose at the great God, then whether in this age or the next He will avenge Himself where vengeance is fit and He certainly will give to you what your wretched actions deserve.

It is fashionable to paint a picture of final divine punishment as one’s merely being separated from God, yet this portrayal is nothing less than both a hermeneutical and rhetorical crime. The situation of those who break God’s law is far worse than separation from the divine. In Matthew 18.8-9 Christ says:

8Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell [ΓΕΕΝNΑΝ] fire.
This is to be compared with Mark 9.47-48:

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell [ΓΕΕΝNΑΝ] fire: 48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
The Greek word translated here as “hell” apparently is an allusion to Ge Hinnom, the valley outside the city of Jerusalem that is said to have been filled with heaps of trash that burned perpetually in the early first century A.D. Whether one is to glean from this passage that he will suffer as with fire for ages to come if he is a sinner, or whether one is to gather the idea that in his willfulness, corruption and evil he makes himself to be cosmic trash, the outlook is beyond bleak: it is incomprehensibly dreadful. Yet a man reaps what he sows.

A body that is broken, damaged, and made to disintegrate is in the meantime a sad, pathetic thing. The body that wastes away by degenerative diseases, that is ravaged by cancer, that is missing limbs or that otherwise has fallen far from its design is a pitiful object, to say nothing of how it would be if outright destroyed. Yet destruction is a reward of rebellion and deviance as the apostle Paul writes:

3We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; 4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day (2 Thessalonians 1.3-10).
To endure the existence of a weak, broken, destroyed object that suffers the everlasting flames of divine retribution is not something at which to scoff and later something to survive and adapt to—it is something to haunt those of us who are complacent, those of us who are haughty, and it is something to fit those who are unmindful of their Creator and the gifts that He has provided. Yet a man reaps what he sows.

Meanwhile, the apostle Peter speaks of men for whom the “mist of darkness” is reserved forever (2 Peter 2.17) while Jude speaks of men for whom the “blackness of darkness” is reserved forever (Jude 1.12-13). All can appreciate the sensory delights to be found in the spectacular vistas of things such as mountains ranges, painted sunsets, lightning storms, clear starry nights, etc. Yet these things are owed to no one and the day is coming when they no longer will be given to everyone who can appreciate them. At least some of those who will be destroyed, who will be left to persist and scratch along in their pathetic, meaningless existence, and who will suffer the pains of everlasting fire perhaps will now find themselves devoid of sensory delights. Because in the first place they were never owed any gifts from their Creator, it is dubious that they will ever again have the blessings of songs, music, singing, whistling, good food and drink, pleasant aromas, and so on. It is also doubtful that they will never again see anything.

In our own day we know of things such as pain, terror, hopelessness, grief, and depression. Things such as these can also make for a sense or feeling of a meaningless existence, an existence composed solely of work, toil, trouble, distress, pain, and the cyclical repetition of these things. But whether you have experienced these things or not, if you are someone who does evil and who transgresses God’s law and requirements, you will drink from the cup of God’s wrath and God will consign you to an experience and an existence that will teach you of the weight and serious nature of evil. First, foremost and above all, the great God is to be obeyed. Secondly, our Creator is not a liar, and when He warns that evil and transgressions of his law will be met with a dreadful and horrifying punishment it follows that sins happen to be worse, more grievous and more heinous than many make them out to be. And what the sum of your crimes will be met with is an experience and existence far worse and far more durative than what seems to exist in this world.

9 comments:

Cross Reference said...

"Let’s make a long story short. Once upon a time the Creator, who is chief of all virtue, holiness and excellence, fashioned a few creatures; He also told them how to be good tenants of the land that He rented to them, and let them go on their way."


Huh??

"These tenants already knew and had some inkling of the idea that to do certain things was wrong, but they did these things anyway."

Really??

"Occasionally, they would stop and realize that they had done something reprehensible; and if they thought to make amends for what they had done they would choose their own way of attempting to atone for their wrongdoings, a way which did not truly satisfy the ontological demands of justice in the first place. In fact, they went on doing things which were deviant and contemptible anyhow and they forgot and otherwise ignored that what they were doing had no rightful place in this universe."

Quite a beginning to a "cutting to the chase". More like an unbelievable fairytale.

Sorry Kwame, you have to do better than that. >)

Kwame E. said...

<<Sorry Kwame, you have to do better than that. >)>>

Actually, I don't have to do anything. If you do not agree with what I've said, too bad. I can't please everyone and I'm not going to try to spell out every foregoing premise to an idea either, especially a relatively obvious premise.

Have a nice day.

Kwame E. said...

<<Actually, I don't have to do anything. If you do not agree with what I've said, too bad. I can't please everyone and I'm not going to try to spell out every foregoing premise to an idea either, especially a relatively obvious premise.>>

That's not meant to sound caustic or anything. Still, "Let’s make a long story short" does signal an attempt at some measure of brevity or restraint.

*******

<<Huh??.>>
<<Really?>>
<<Quite a beginning to a "cutting to the chase". More like an unbelievable fairytale.>>

Oh, I'm sure there are many of us who can think, recall, and come up with ancedotal evidence to show that there are indeed unbelievers who know of right and wrong yet do wrong anyhow. Some of these unbelievers who come to mind may be co-workers, friends, family members that you talk with, or even self as it existed way back when.

Anyone who, on the other hand, cannot do this: I recommend that he or she consider the likes of John 3.20, Romans 2, or the Pauline passages of the Scriptures in which the apostle Paul speaks of his fellow Jews' attempting to attain a righteousness not of God but from themselves, and failing. In fact, many of the latter persons saw and heard the Way with their own eyes and ears, but rejected him and went on about their own business; one can rest assured that when it was time for them to "atone" for their sins come Yom Kippur or some occasion, they were not looking to Christ for forgiveness at that time but perhaps the current high priest in office instead.

But again, if I still have to try harder, that's just too bad for both me and whoever else. Like anyone else, my time is limited these days.

Cross Reference said...

Kwame wrote:

"But again, if I still have to try harder, that's just too bad for both me and whoever else. Like anyone else, my time is limited these days."

Indeed and, based upon what read from you, I would say your knowledge of God is as well. That may sound caustic, it is not intended to be more than a truthful assessment. My and are of my shock and awe because of your mis-interpretation of creation that,, if believed, is a pitiful foundation for further understanding the scriptures. I am curious to know where you obtained such ‘knowledge’, "who hath bewitched you"?

I am stunned by the ignorance and seeming inability of many [through the years] to ascertain the facts in context and to appropriate them to their ‘objective’ thinking [so called] for what should be the purpose of making accurate distinctions when reading scripture for their own spiritual benefit. What also frustrates and disappoints me is the willful ignoring of scripture that reveals their ignorance, incompleteness and/or otherwise confused thinking and revealing it to be ‘subjective’; no questions asked. . just dismissed out of hand. That is a sad commentary if claiming to be an ‘objective’ thinker. What you have taken to believe is an ‘openness of mind’ approach has only served to ‘close’ it down to all else God would desire you to know of Himself.

I am sorry however, I have no patience for this kind "blogging". I only strirs up strife and can never benefit anyone.

"The lamp of the body is the eye; if therefore your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" Matthew 6:22-23 (NASB77)

I pray God would reveal Himself to you in a fresh way and to the exclusion of all else.

FWIW, These are just a few of the authors who have helped me formulate my thinking. For what it may be worth I offer them up:

Oswald Chambers . . .NOT just his devotion but all else he wrote.

Andrew Murray

DeVern Fromke . . . “Unto Full Stature” and “Ultimate Intention”.

P.T. Forsyth

Stanley Jones . . In particular, “The Christ of the Mount”

Charles Finney

Gregory Mantles .. . “The Way of the Cross”

Geo. MacDonald . . . A universalist and in particular, "The Creation in Christ".

Sorry but nothing in my library is of the “Purpose Driven”, “Emergent” or otherwise, new age, self-help, facilitated, church writers-thinkers.

Thank you, if you read this. It is not my desire to continue here.

Sincerely

Ken

Croref@gmail.com

D.B. said...

There is an old saying attributed sometimes to Augustine. It says this:

In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.

Ken, you claim that it is this kind of "blogging" that causes strife and benefits no one. You seem to be the only one causing strife here lately and I know at least several folks who have benefitted from the blog. Maybe their knowledge is not as profound as yours, but hey, we are all at different stages of the journey.

RE:Purpose/Emergent/new age...Feel free to go through the entire catalog and see if you find the pattern of anything emergent or purpose driven. That is an unfair characterization of Kwame's post and this blog as a whole.

You have not been very charitable in many of the interactions with myself. You are entitled to your positions and opinions and you seem to have a lot of knowledge.

Part of being a good ambassador for Christ is not making the Gospel any more offensive than it already is, particularly with our own lives and the way we interact with others. It is not merely asserting our intelligence.

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" (I like the NIV translation of "gentleness and respect" or NASB adds "reverence")

You are doing ok with the first part, but like me, you miss the gentleness and respect. By a lot. I appreciate your passion in defending the truth (we share that in common), but it does not give us license to be a jerk.

I pray that you would come to realize that.

You: "Thank you, if you read this. It is not my desire to continue here."

That is probably for the best. Happy Trails.

Kwame E. said...

Ken wrote:

<<Kwame wrote:

"But again, if I still have to try harder, that's just too bad for both me and whoever else. Like anyone else, my time is limited these days."

Indeed and, based upon what read from you, I would say your knowledge of God is as well. That may sound caustic, it is not intended to be more than a truthful assessment. My and are of my shock and awe because of your mis-interpretation of creation that,, if believed, is a pitiful foundation for further understanding the scriptures. I am curious to know where you obtained such ‘knowledge’, "who hath bewitched you"?>>

It's too easy to say stuff like this. "You're shockingly ignorant." "Where'd you get stuff like this from?"

Adherents of Christian queer theology--as it were!--claim that Christians who hold to traditional views on homosexuality are ignorant of Christ's teachings. Arminians wonder where Calvinists get their outlandish (as it were) theology from. Campbellites wonder where adherents of sola fide get some of their theology from. I suppose other examples could be drawn as well.

The charge of ignorance is meaningless for more than one reason. For one, it's just too commonly made and by too many opposing camps to be meaningful or very cogent or informative. Secondly, I could say the same of you, Mr. Ken whom I don't even know. Based upon things you have said, frankly and candidly I think that you display some measure of ignorance. So guess where that leaves us: one side of the issues calls the other side ignorant, and the other side calls the first side ignorant. The charges of ignorance get us nowhere. All that matters in the end is specific particular facts of the matters at hand.


Continuing:

<<I am stunned by the ignorance and seeming inability of many [through the years] to ascertain the facts in context and to appropriate them to their ‘objective’ thinking [so called] for what should be the purpose of making accurate distinctions when reading scripture for their own spiritual benefit.>>

Likewise, this gets us nowhere. All the people in Christendom who happen to hold views different from your own--and, of course, *none* of us agree on absolutely everything--surely think the same thing about folks like you: i.e., people with views opposed to their own. "How can Calvinists be so ignorant of this?" "How can liberal Christians be so ignorant of that?"

Everyone thinks the other guy or the other party is ignorant. At the same time, not all the parties or persons in view have less than an M.Div, PH.D in theology, or some other thorough and rigid form of theological education. What that means is that not everything is a matter of true ignorance. That is, not every supposedly heterodox or false idea in Christendom exists because someone is ignorant or because someone errs in biblical hermeneutics. No, sometimes people are smart and educated and still just get things wrong.

[Comments continue...]

Kwame E. said...

Continuing:

<< What also frustrates and disappoints me is the willful ignoring of scripture that reveals their ignorance, incompleteness and/or otherwise confused thinking and revealing it to be ‘subjective’; no questions asked. . just dismissed out of hand. That is a sad commentary if claiming to be an ‘objective’ thinker. What you have taken to believe is an ‘openness of mind’ approach has only served to ‘close’ it down to all else God would desire you to know of Himself.>>

I dunno. You seem to be thinking that my statement as to a lack of time--and I will suffer the results of taking even twenty minutes to consider your recent comments and respond to them, when I should be in bed--somehow means that I am not open to the possbility that my beliefs are errant in some particular way.

If so, that would be a mistake, because that is not what I meant. When I say lack time, I mean *I lack time* and precisely *I lack time.* I can't respond to every criticism in full measure, period. And I can't spend time coming up with new technique after new technique to try to drive home or defend what propositions or teachings I'm arguing for, period. When I'm out driving to work in my car or lying in bed, I have plenty of time to consider what ways in which I may have erred in my beliefs; but still, as I said before apologetics is not my day job and I'm a realist who appreciates more and more that not every goal in life can be accomplished. Not enough hours in a day or week.


Finally, you wrote:

<<Thank you, if you read this. It is not my desire to continue here.>>

Like I said: ya can't please everyone.

Anonymous said...

blah blah blah... SO much hot air, SO much in th way of quoting something." Scripture, Writers, Dictionary Definitions, etc.... D.B. seems unstable to me.....

D.B. said...

I don't usually post this many comments from an anonymous person who chooses not to engage the issues, but this one was too funny to pass up.

I did talk with my wife and she partially agrees with you. You says it is possible that I am unstable, but not because of what I wrote here. Ha.

Never one to pass up a good story, this reminds me of when I was 8 or 9 and would wait for my dad to go into the gas station to pay for gas. While he was away I would get onto his CB, find a station where truckers were talking and start cussing at the truckers until they graced me with some choice words of their own. It was pretty fun when I was 9.

If you ever want to discuss the actual content, I would be more willing to continue. However, if you want to continue to hide behind your anonymity and unecessarily disrespectful comments, you are more than welcome to stop coming to the blog.

Thank you.